Interview: John Lydon on The Sex Pistols' betrayal, why Donald Trump is a 'breath of fresh air' and his plan for a new PiL album
Former Sex Pistols frontman John Lydon speaks his mind and opens his heart on his fury at his ex- bandmates, the loss of his late wife Nora, the future of politics and his ambition for Public Image Ltd...
In an era when musicians are apprehensive about speaking their minds, John Lydon has many opinions on many things and he wants you to hear them.
Like how his former Sex Pistols bandmates have betrayed him, the impact the death of his wife Nora has had on his life and career, why Donald Trump's re-election is so important and how he'll be writing a new Public Image Ltd album whilst on tour with his band.
Contact Music sat down to speak with the artist formerly known as Johnny Rotten in a room at his agent's office in Soho, London, to hear those opinions as the punk rock icon smoked, sank beers and swore as he put the world to rights...
Contact Music: You must be delighted that the appetite for Public Image Limited is still there and that you have such a loyal fan base after all these years?
John Lydon:
Two years ago my wife died and then my best mate eight months later. I was really despondent. I thought, ‘Oh, just knock it on the head.’ Neither of those two folk would’ve tolerated that attitude from me. I’m too much of a get up and go and do things and write songs person. I enjoy it. I enjoy the terror of live performance. It’s nerve-wracking before you go on. It winds me up and turns my stomach inside out, but I seem to like that.
My youth was ruined by The Sex Pistols, so I’m used to the hard work side of it, and I really like it. If there are people out there who are up for the cup I am like Arsenal - I will deliver!
Do you think the fact that you still have those nerves after doing it for so long is what makes the performances so good?
Stage fright. I’ve read a lot of books about that, by Alec Guinness and those kind of actors who talk about stage fright and it really helped me when I was young. It’s a really valuable tool, because without that you won’t have the inner stamina to do what you next on stage. You won’t be prepared for it. You have to basically s*** yourself, you do. I still do but I like that, the relief once I’m on stage, that’s the reward. And then it’s sink or swim.
And you can only have that feeling with a live performance, I assume?
That, or an evening of bad, indulgent sex!
Of course, PiL have a new drummer now…
We’ve gone through a bit of turmoil, too. Aside from my personal stuff, the band has.
Our drummer Bruce [Smith] got caught up in a domestic situation and he felt it was best that he walk away. He couldn’t have done it at a worse time, but all empathy to poor old Bruce, because I loved Bruce.
So we had to get a replacement and we love Mark [Roberts], the new guy. The songs I know approach differently, less technology, more rockers. That’s great fun. It’s not a revival of the early days, it’s just a poking of the PiL energy that created those songs, anyway.
It’s invigorating to have fresh blood. And he’s such a good bloke.
Does having a new member give those songs a new impetus?
We’ve cut a lot of the sampling out and the click tracks. They always annoyed me on stage. I hate doing that stuff to click, click, click. Now it’s pretty free-form and we can improvise.
My voice is better than ever. For some weird reason two years of abject misery has helped me no end.
You mentioned you have a need to write songs, could we get a new Public Image Ltd album?
Yeah, we will. Yeah. For the new album I’m constantly writing. When we’re on a tour bus all that starts to happen.
I never stop writing. It’s been like that all my life, since I learned to read and write when I was four, I just loved writing. I’ve got reams of ideas. But I’d be lucky if out of 800 pages I could skim two lines. It’s consistent and I might not be in that mind frame later on down the line.
What is inspiring your lyrics now?
Life. Existence. A sense of joy in everything. I’m not a misery guts. I’m not one for wallowing in self-pity. Obviously, I’ve had my moments in that, but that would not inspire me to put out an album of introspective mediocrity. This is not Peter Hammill here.
I find fun in everything, and humour. That creates intrigue and then I investigate my subjects until I can pen it accurately and properly.
There’s no fantasy island in my writing; it’s all based on experiences.
What about politics? Does that influence your writing?
I hate politicians, all of them.
John Lydon has plans for a new Public Image Ltd album / Credit: AVALON
What about Donald Trump?
It might be hard for socialist Britain to understand but Donald Trump is like a breath of fresh air, because he’s not a politician. That’s it.
I don’t like the man, I don’t care about the man, but he might create something interesting that as of up to now business as usual in politics has not done. Bring a wrecking ball, by all means, to it.
A couple of years ago I was asked what I thought of him and I said I thought he was The Sex Pistols of politics. Then I tried to take it back and then I thought, ‘No, actually Johnny, that sounds f****** right.
We also now have Conor McGregor getting involved in Irish politics and he has said that the era of the politician is over, do you agree with that?
I’m in total agreement with Conor.
He’s the kind of fella I could sit and talk to for hours because he tells it as he sees it, so there’s no fanny with him.
Do you think we’re losing the ability to be able to debate with one another on issues we disagree on?
I’m happy with people that utterly disagree with me, possibly more so than the other way.
It’s a very difficult time now in society because if you say anything that sticks out it’s immediately viewed politically, or you’re a racist. The sloganeering and the labelling that’s going on is unhealthy. F****** hell, I beg to differ you should be on my f****** gravestone. Although I don’t beg. I’ll knock that bit off. Let’s just say I differ. I do it naturally, it’s not studied.
Debate is wonderful. All my favourite TV shows are when they’re really going at each other, but not when they’re politically motivated. If I find out there’s an undercarriage of conceit or deceit of political opinion then I turn off.
I like open-mindedness.
In the rock world there are very few artists who are prepared to speak their mind now…
A lot of bands tend to carp on to the left wing thing because it guarantees them work, frankly. Less contention they feel.
Music is supposed to be outspoken; that’s just the way it is. Heaven help us if we’re right all the time.
And you've always spoken your mind, do you think that's earned you respect from your fellow artists?
Over the years it’s been a surprise to me that there are actually people in the industry that are friendly to me. The majority are usually jealous, f****** simple-minded and prejudice. That’s my experience of the music industry. So you can see why we don’t get on.
In the early days of punk there wasn’t camaraderie, there should have been. But a lot of them were title grabbers and credit hoppers, so there was a lot of putdowns, which could be fun.
Punk bands put themselves in a competitive role and that killed the vibe. Prejudices, slagging off other forms of music. Me, I’m up for anything, if anybody makes the effort to put in on vinyl or put it out then I’m intrigued. I know how fearful that process is, so I appreciate it. If I’m well-known for criticising it’s because I know the ins and outs of it and I can smell lazy work. That underwhelms me.
Have you ever thought about getting involved in politics?
Practically, every second song I’ve ever written is a problem to this current government.
So you aren’t tempted to trade your life in Malibu to be an MP in London?
... (John silently gives a wry smile)
Your former band, The Sex Pistols, are touring with Frank Carter. You’ve not shied away to say what you think. But Steve Jones did recently come out and publicly say he’d be up for a reconciliation with you…
He can go f*** himself! Not after all that. Sorry. Three strikes you’re out mate. No, never.
They’ve humiliated themselves. It’s the gift that goes on giving.
I would have loved for them to have written new stuff and have gone out that way. That would have been brave and good. But it isn’t, it’s karaoke. I can’t see it in any other way. They belong on a cruise ship with that malarkey.
And they’ve put a lot of bands out of work. Pistols type cover bands. What are they gonna do now? Because this lot have topped them in the cheese department.
Sex Pistols members Paul Cook and Steve Jones / Credit: Getty Images
Are you motivated to perform Pistols songs either with PiL or a with a new band backing you?
No. We’ve been known to do the occasional Pistols song but now I’m of the mind that no I won’t because they’re murdering it. This is not the right time.
Ultimately, they’re (The Sex Pistols) are not affecting my legendary status.
Can you see why Frank wanted to do it?
Oh yeah, I’ve got no problems with him. He’d be gagging at the bit for a gig like that but I think he has now realised what he has gotten himself into. Poor sausage.
Johnny Rotten in The Sex Pistols in 1977 / Credit: AVALON
Do the scars of the Disney series court case still run deep?
They’re nasty b******s. They took me to court when my wife was dying of Alzheimer’s. That’s something I can’t forgive. Why should I? It’s not mine to forgive. It’s something internal inside themselves that they’ve got to come to grips with. You’re not going to get into heaven being a f****** sneaky ****.
That’s what hurt. I could have handled it normally. My wife is dying here and they knew that but still pushed that palaver. This could all have been settled away from lawyers. There was a malicious intent. It was done to hurt me, in every which way.
I’m pure in my soul about all this and I don’t think they can say the same. They’re in purgatory for a reason.
The case stripped me money wise. I was up against Disney Corporation. How the f*** can I compete with that?
The financial aspect of it was really overwhelming. I had to raise £2 million. From where? My wife is about to f****** die. I know it. I didn’t know how long she would have to survive and I had to endure that. That’s an enormous amount of pain and grief to be inflicting one someone. They weren’t discreet about it all.
The accusations in the courtroom were overwhelmingly nasty and I was not given enough time to respond because it was a one week case. If I did respond I’d be eating up my time. It was just basically accusations. F*** ‘em!
Bad lives some people create for themselves.
If they wished I’d just be pushed aside and fade away, wow, you don’t know me boys.
Do you have any regrets about pursuing that court case now?
No. I had to stand up and declare my path. You can’t let people roll you over. At the same time I had no expectation of beating that kind of money.
The irony of the Disney Corporation financing The Sex Pistols against the lead singer, that’s f****** great stuff isn’t it? Just think about it. Viewing it as an outsider, at the same time as feeling mortally offended, it is so humorous. Are they aware of what they’re getting themselves into?
There’s nothing wrong with irony, but there’s an awful lot wrong with stupidity.
Did you ever meet Danny Boyle who directed the series 'Pistol'?
I met Danny Boyle for the Olympics thing. I had a good chat with him about how to include Pistols and PiL songs on that. I thought we got on alright.
So when I found out they’re this project and it’s been three years in the pipeline and there’s not been a word to me, that was f****** ugly.
I fail to see how anything you do can be accurate if you leave out the singer, frontman and songwriter part. It became a David Cassidy story.
John and his late wife Nora / Credit: Getty Images
You’ve mentioned your late wife Nora and the passing of your friend John "Rambo" Stevens; it’s two years on from those losses and what happened with The Sex Pistols in court. How is your life now?
I’ve gone back to my inner resilience. I stand up alone now, I don’t need to have cruxes in my life but it was bloody great to have them. Now I don’t. But that doesn’t make me any less of the person that I am. I know in my heart and in my head that they are there.
And the memory of them both has inspired you to carry on with PiL and to carry one making music?
They would f****** hate me going into retirement. I wouldn’t know what to do with retirement. I create. That’s what I do. I invent things out of nothing.
Was your grief over their deaths a motivation to do your solo spoken word tour?
I found great joy and glee doing the solo talking shows. The combination of the audience and me just there alone, head in the guillotine, it was a very frightful affair, but it worked.
I found out that I am naturally personable, oddly enough, and approachable. F****** great. The people that turned up for that did me no end of good and I love them to death for that.
It’s a sad and bitter regret, personally, that I wasn’t aware of that and that I’d forgotten that. It was a case of that I wasn’t doing this for myself, there’s a lot of people that matter in my life and most of them I don’t even know. But we do know each other by being kindred spirits. That was very rewarding.
We’re all of a similar mind, this country is going to s***, somebody needs to f****** say something.
How is life in Malibu now?
In Malibu we needed one level, so that’s why we invested a lot in that house, because of Nora’s ailments. When you’re relying on walking sticks and wheelchairs it was obvious that it had to be the way. Rather conveniently it’s Malibu.
You can say, ‘Oh, that’s an easy lifestyle.’ Not when you’re surrounded by left wing Democrats it isn’t!
It's good. I live in a regular people area, it’s not like millionaire mansions, it’s not like that at all.
Would you ever come back to the UK to live?
I’ve still got a place here, but that’s rundown to f***. I’ve got a kitchen that looks like it belongs in a caravanette. The mice have taken over.
I don’t know about permanently living here. For health reasons, too. I’m a lot healthier on the West Coast. Here, the damp, the mould, the air fresheners are all doing me in. The town was built on mould. I’m a delicate little flower.
You mention the love you felt from your fans on the solo speaking tour, do you think you were misunderstood for a lot of years?
Yeah. Things like 'I’m A Celebrity… Get Me Out Of Here!' helped.
My god, they bothered me for years, and I wouldn’t do it, but they guaranteed they would pay certain charities that I was affectionate towards. So I did it for that.
That gave people the chance to see me for how I really was 24/7 with a camera on me. I’m practical in life. If it’s cold I’ll light a fire. You can’t drink the water in the jungle so you boil it, common sense things. That’s just how I am.
Do you still get offered reality shows? Would you do 'Celebrity Big Brother', for instance?
No. That’s too low for me, that’s silly. I’m not trying to be a celebrity. Whatever I am it’s always been done in spite of that nonsense. I’m the accidental celebrity.
Do you have any other ambitions you want to fulfil in your life at the age of 69?
I am writing a book, of sorts. Of course it’s based on truth, but it’s a juxtaposition of the characters.
I can’t just sit down and not do nothing, it’s not my way.
Yet I’ve created a wonderful impression that I just sit around watching TV all day which I can’t stand doing.
I love painting. There’s an enticement there that I start collecting my paintings and displaying them. I’ve used them in books that I’ve put together in the past. There’s a whole bunch of new stuff that is very relevant to me. If there’s an audience for that then that’s well and fine. If there isn’t then I can wait. Even after death.
Public Image Ltd are on tour until August and tickets are on sale now, available from all venues and Ticketmaster
You can follow Public Image Limited via their official site www.pilofficial.com and on Facebook / Instagram / X
Public Image Ltd's 2025 tour dates:
12th June Dublin 3Olympia
13th June Limerick Dolan’s Warehouse
22nd June Milton Keynes Forever Now Festival
24th June Margate Dreamland
26th June Hastings White Rock
27th June Newark Stone Valley Festival Midlands
28th June Oxford O2 Academy
1st July Warrington Parr Hall
3rd July Leicester O2 Academy
4th July Lincoln Engine Shed
5th July Portsmouth Guildhall
26th July Cardiff Depot
30th July Sheffield Leadmill
31st July Northampton Roadmenders
1st August Holmfirth Picturedrome
2nd August Coventry Empire
7th August Cheltenham Town Hall
8th August Durham Stone Valley Festival North
9th August Blackpool Rebellion Festival
15th August Cork City Hall
16th August Belfast Putting the Fast in Belfast, Custom House Square
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